Keener's 8-ball Strategy

[Fred Agnir]

I hope by now everyone who was going to, has visited Keener's site. I thought the game is an APA match or similar signified by the coaster to presumably mark the 8-ball, but no marking happened when the opponent shot for the 8-ball. I guess the coaster was for the beer.

Anyway, here's the original mess:


http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

START(
%Ad0G1%BM2Q8%C`4V8%Dl8S4%EF8U3%Fn2T3%Gd8U0%Hh0P3%I f8U3%JW9Z7
%KT1S9%Lo1Z6%Mb4G0%ND7O6%Ok1S9%Pp5G5
)END

After inning #1, the hapless opponent leaves this:

START(
%Ad0G1%BM2Q8%C`4V8%Dl8S4%EG9P4%Fn2T3%Gd8U0%Hh0P3%I f8U3%J_2W8
%M`3L1%ND7O6%Ok1S9%P\1E7%Ub2G6%V]1F0%Wk4Q2%Xc1H2%Yr4D0%Ze1G1
)END


A great breakout yielded this:

START(
%BM2Q8%C`4V8%Dl2G2%EG9P4%Fn2T3%Gd8U0%Hq4M3%If8U3%J _1W9%M`3L1
%ND7O6%Ok1S9%Pl6Q9
)END

Now, this is runout city from here. The shadows suggest the 7-ball passes into the upper right pocket (as viewed on the WEI table). The 3-ball goes somewhere, either bottom right or upper left. One, the other, or both.

The description of the next shot says that the I was trying to "break out the 7-ball." Do I have the 3-ball and 7-ball reversed? Even if I do, why am I breaking those balls out? The photo clearly shows that the the solid that's tied up with the 10-ball (I have it as the 3-ball) goes into the lower right pocket (WEI table) for sure.

Anyway the way I see it is that the 3-ball to the 7-ball is easy position and that they don't have to be broken out. So, if the angle permitted (which it looks like it does in the photo), and the cloth was fast, I'd draw back for the 2-ball.

START(
%BM2Q8%C`4V8%Dl2G2%EG9P4%Fn2T3%Gd8U0%Hq4M3%If8U3%J _1W9%M`3L1
%ND7O6%Ok1S9%Pl6Q9%Ue1E6%Vl1Q3%W`1G0%Xd2D6%eB7b1
)END

If the table was slow, I might be forced to cheat the pocket and play for the 7-ball, maybe even using that 3-ball as a stopper.

START(
%BM2Q8%C`4V8%Dl2G2%EG9P4%Fn2T3%Gd8U0%Hq4M3%If8U3%J _1W9%M`3L1
%ND7O6%Ok1S9%Pl5Q7%Ui4Z2%Vm3S5%We1Y2%Xh5Z4%eC1a5
)END

Anyone else see it differently?

Fred

[Rod]

Fred,
I hope everyone has seen it to and responded. Otherwise you have spoiled if for those that haven't. Even with a clear diagram different level players may not view it the same way. It was her idea to get reactions from all levels. I could show this to some low level players and they wouldn't know how to get out from there. They might have an idea but move whitey differently based on their ability.

I didn't think the 7 goes but explained how I would run out anyway. I did mention if it does go my pattern would be different. Kind of like shooting ducks in a small pond. LOL

BTW if you didn't notice, there is no way the 8 ball can end up on the end rail from the previous shot patterns.

[Steve Lipsky]

Fred, I mostly agree with you but I think I would play the 6 to the 4 to the 5/2 to the 5/2 to the 3 to the 7.

The entire game rests on the 3 to the 7, and I don't like the 3 to the 7 to the 4. Partially because it requires getting into a relatively small positional zone off the 3, and partially because the 13 can cause BIG problems getting from the 7 to the 4 (such as forcing you to get on the wrong side of the 4, and then having to bump into the 8 for position).

I want to play a stop shot on the 3, jack up a little on the 7, and punch it two soft rails (long then short) to wind up perfect on the 8.

I will say that your pattern, if everything works out, is definitely prettier than mine, but IMO it's slightly more dangerous.

What do you think?

This is fun,
Steve

[Fred Agnir]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr>

I will say that your pattern, if everything works out, is definitely prettier than mine, but IMO it's slightly more dangerous.

What do you think?

This is fun,
Steve

<hr /></blockquote>

I think I just got back from lunch and tried the pattern out. I played your out on my third try, and by then I had the cloth and cushion speed down, and ran out pretty easily.

So, the conclusion is, as long as I've got three shots at the runout, I should be fine.

Fred

[Steve Lipsky]

Fred, what happened on your first two tries?

[Fred Agnir]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> Fred, what happened on your first two tries? <hr /></blockquote>
First try, I tried drawing back for the 2-ball. Of course, I normally tell all who want to listen try not to draw a ball straight back with ball in hand. The body, IMO, needs a shot to get re-familiar with the cloth. Anyhoo, I overdrew the damned thing. Disgusted, I put the balls back and tried to go for the 7-ball instead. Of course, since I went long on the first try, I went short on the second. I had a shot on the 7, but I would have been letting the cueball loose. If it were competition, I would have gunned at it and let the cueball fly!!!! Yeeeehaaaaa.

So, disgusted once more, I re-started and I drew off the 6-ball for the 4-ball. Of course, I had the speed somewhat down, so it was easy from there.

Fred

[Rod]

Fred,
Either way works for me when you know the table speed. The only problem I see is the c/b is close to the 6 and that can make it testy to follow the right distance for position on the 7.

[CarolNYC]

Hi Fred,
I visited the site briefly but did not take the survey-
I see the 6,3,7,2,5,4,8(Boy, this sounds like the firing order to my 71' Buick Convertible,ha ha ha)Of course I always see the most difficult way-I like yours and Steves!Have a nice day!

Carol~will have to set it up on my table!