Charlie Williams - have you NO shame?!

[Ross]

First let me say that these comments are coming from someone who has previously given Charlie Williams and the UPA the benefit of the doubt. When others were blasting him for not sanctioning last year's Open, I reasoned that sticking to standards (money needs to be posted ahead of time) was important for the long-term welfare of the players, even is it is unpopular. I assumed that the sometimes arrogant tone of some of the UPA's public statements were just start-up PR mistakes. Everything would get better, I optimistically hoped.

When he advertised his first Predator Pro School at $400/person for 18 students and 3 pros, I still wished him good luck. That price was in line with other schools, since it was effectively 6 students per group getting two days of instruction. And though at least 2 of the instructors were not that experienced as such, at least they were top pros and because of that their views held some extra value.

But now he has announced his second school for 18 players at (are you ready for this?) $750 per person! This is an 87% increase in fees for his second school! This does not seem the work of someone who is trying to give something back to the sport (while being reasonably compensated for his time), but rather the action of someone who is greedy as hell!!! That is a total session fee of $13,500 or $4500 per instructor for 2 days! Or if you prefer, $281/hour (assuming 2 full 8 hour days) for the instructors. That price is outrageous and I hope few are tempted to pay these exorbitant rates. It is many times the rates of nationally renowned instructors such as Jerry Brieseth who has 20+ years of teaching experience. And remember, just as being an NBA star does not make a player a great coach, being a pro pool player does not necessarily make a good instructor!

It's no skin off my back, since I will not be ripped off like this. But -- and I'm sorry to say it -- I've given up on my optimistic view that Charlie Williams in something other than an arrogant, greedy, jerk (not the term I wanted to use, but I will be polite [img]/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]). I urge all of you boycott his greedy endeavor.

And,again I say - Charlie, have you NO shame!

[bigbro6060]

I thought you were gonna talk about Charlie admitting he likes the Backstreet Boys [img]/ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

the truth is, there are too many fools with too much money in this world and the USA has more than it's fair share so i'm sure even at the higher price, his 'pool school' will be full

[Rich R.]

Ross, I have to agree with everything you are saying about CW. It only took me a few minutes of personal contact with him to learn that he is an extremely arrogant jerk. JMHO.

However, he may not be the one to blame for the price increase for the Predator Pool School. I never thought I would be defending CW. [img]/ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
Although he may be involved in some way, Charlie is not listed as one of the instrutors for this version of the Predator Pool School.
http://www.predatorcues.com/english/poolschool.htm

[jjinfla]

Fool me once - shame on you.
Fool me twice - shame on me.

But, people will pay the price, not for the lessons, but just to hob-nob with Archer, Robles and Varner.

Must be some of those filthy "rich" Republicans the Democrats keep telling us about.

Just think what they could have charged if the school had Earl Strickland as one of the instructors.

Jake~~~still waiting for some feedback about the last school from some of the students. Other than from a SL2.

[silverbullet]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> Fool me once - shame on you.
Fool me twice - shame on me.

But, people will pay the price, not for the lessons, but just to hob-nob with Archer, Robles and Varner.

Must be some of those filthy "rich" Republicans the Democrats keep telling us about.

Just think what they could have charged if the school had Earl Strickland as one of the instructors.

Jake~~~still waiting for some feedback about the last school from some of the students. Other than from a SL2. <hr /></blockquote>

I did not take the school. I only observed. It was ww who took it and he is not a sl2.he did post ccb about this. Just wanted to clear that up

blu

[Fran Crimi]

First: I heard feedback from three people who attended the first one. All said it was very good, they had to work out some kinks but attributed it to being the first one. All said it was definitely worth the money.

Next: The PGA has a golf school. The cost is $750 per person for half the amount of hours as the pool workshop. You stand at a driving range with a lot more people than in the pool workshop, and you work with a few of the golf pros who aren't teachers, just golfers, and not even the top-ranked ones. There's a waiting list a mile long to get into this thing.

And finally, the only objection I have to this whole thing is Charlie's hit and run tactic in posting on the CCB. I think that's unfair. But as far as the cost, do you all remember how many tournaments these guys played their hearts out in and took home peanuts? They're the best in the world at what they do and they are trying to make a legitimate living out of it. How can you fault them for that? A lot of people won't be able to afford it, but that's the way life is. Maybe if these guys can finally make some kind of living off of pool they can give back a little more, but right now I don't blame them one bit.

Fran

[Tom_In_Cincy]

Two Days with TWO Hall of Famers (well one anyway.. but Johnny Archer will eventually be there) autographs, hobnobbing, and learning something about pool.

Predator is sponsering this event, and you know how many people like the Predator cues. There will probably be freebies for the students.

Its not a bad deal if you think that for $750 you could buy a good Predator cue, and still need the instructions.

CW spaming the forums is still crude, but its better than being on his mailing list.

[Fred Agnir]

I know this board isn't supposed to be setup for advertisements. But, in this case, we're not talking about selling my old Meucci on E-bay.
We're not walking a fine line here. We're talking about pool instruction from Nick Varner, Johnny Archer, and Tony Robles.

IMHO, professional announcements should be encouraged here. On the other hand, it would be nice if Charlie added something to the discussions once in a while.

The whole argument about cost is really a non-issue. If 18 people pay it, then the price was right for them.

Good luck Charlie. I hope you contribute something other than announcements in the future.

Fred

[cuechick]

I have to agree Fran, I think it is not outrageous. Doesn't the pool school in Vancover cost 2500.00+? Also, I would not assume that they are getting ALL that money. Predator may take a cut and their is the expense of travel to VF. Predator is notriously cheap with their sponsorship, only giving equipment, so I would not assume they are picking up those cost, they are probally deducting it from the fee. I know one former WC who wrapped his break cue with black tape in protest of their cheap ways!
I think that it's an amazing line up of instructors and if one can afford it, I am sure it will be money well spent.
As far as hit and run Charlie, imo, whatever! This is a place to share information about pool, he is under no obligation to exchange in banter. He has taken a lot under his belt, I am sure he is busy and he is not the only Pro, who lurks but doesn't post. I think it is hard for Pro's in these forums, their comments are over analysized and picked apart, I have seen some out right slamming so it makes sense that they would rather stay in the background.
I admire your willingness to express yourself; but have seen you also fall victim to that...it is a tough pool world!

[#### leonard]

I have to agree with Fran. Some golf pros charge $2500 for a half day of their time. If people can afford that price maybe pool is starting to appeal to the Rich. Golf has lost its love affair with the Celebrity Pro/Am maybe pool can capture the Celebs.####