8 Ball Tourney

[9 Ball Girl]

I've been asked to run an 8 ball tourney any which way I want for the locals at a certain pool hall (Platinum Billiards to be exact). This has probably been asked before and I can't remember what the answers are so forgive me for any redundancy. I'm thinking about $15-$20 entry fee, double elimation, Races to 5 on the Winner's side and 4 on the Loser's. The Loser will pay for the table time. That bit the poolhall wants. This will not be Last Pocket 8 Ball. Instead, it'll be ball in pocket. In other words, the OB can go 100 rails but as long as it goes into the called pocket, it counts.

How would you handicap players that you've never even seen play before?

What should the handicap be? Balls or games on the wire?

Fouls ala 9 Ball (except for the 3 foul loss)?

If I don't do BIH, then they MUST hit their OB and a rail. If they don't then should it be BIH anywhere or BIH in the kitchen? (Some of these "players" probably have never heard of BIH and wouldn't even know when BIH comes into play).

Thanks for any feedback. Oh yeah, it'll probably start off based on a 16 player field. I've already gotten about 10 people that want to play. The room wants to start this in at least 2 weeks so again suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

[Predator314]

We play our 8-ball tourney's by what the guys call "International Rules". This really means the rules that govern play in the international 8-ball tourney the Moose Lodge holds every year. These rules consist of using BIH on all cue ball fouls (behind the line if a foul on the break). Open table after the break. 8-ball is neutral when the table is open. We do a race to 3 for time. If there are some not so great players, a race to 3 or best 2 of 3 would probably be best. Races to 5 can take a while.

I'm against not playing ball in hand. There has to be some consequence for making a bad lick. I've been screwed in tournaments a few times playing the bar rules. Players will just knock the cue ball down the table leaving you no shot, but they do it without even hitting a ball.

[Ralph S.]

9Ball Girl, I would suggest going with race to 3 in both brackets or race to 2 in losers. Race to 5 in 8 ball can be very long. Also, see if you can possibly get the room owner to go for a flat rate for table time. An example would be
$15 entry fee with $5 green fee totaling $20 for tourney entry. One thing I have also noticed with 8ball tourneys is it usually goes smooth if you use a standardized set of rules like Valley or BCA. Virtually all tourney players know these rules already and they usually leave little in the way of arguements. Hope this helps.
Ralph S.

[Eric.]

As far as handicapping an unknown player, well I guess that will always be a work in progress. I think the only way to do it is to have someone watch every one of his/her games and reevaluate after each game until they are "known".


Handicapping is harder than doing the same in 9 ball. I think using the break(if 8 on the break is a win), games on the wire, and BIH vs in the kitchen for the stronger player might be a start. The breaks would be the weakest spot and the games on the wire the strongest.

Personally, I like having the BIH rule because it tends to keep people *honest* [img]/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


Eric

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph S.:</font><hr> 9Ball Girl, I would suggest going with race to 3 in both brackets or race to 2 in losers. Race to 5 in 8 ball can be very long. Also, see if you can possibly get the room owner to go for a flat rate for table time. An example would be
$15 entry fee with $5 green fee totaling $20 for tourney entry. One thing I have also noticed with 8ball tourneys is it usually goes smooth if you use a standardized set of rules like Valley or BCA. Virtually all tourney players know these rules already and they usually leave little in the way of arguements. Hope this helps.
Ralph S. <hr /></blockquote>

I will have to agree with you on this. I prefer double elimination, 2 out of 3 in the winners bracket, and single game on the losers side mostly for time constraints. I would also go with BCA rules to keep the disputes to a minimum. From what I have experienced, this seems to work quite well. As far as the entry fee, I would have to say it depends on the level of the players that will be participating. Good luck with it!

Ralph, you mentioned Valley or BCA, excuse my ignorance, but what is valley?

[Karatemom]

I also agree with using BCA rules, and also with charging a flat rate with a green fee. That eliminates the hassle of pumping quarters and figuring out who owes what.

As for figuring handicaps on new players. What we do out here is start them off at a middle handicap, about a 6. Watch their progress, matches won and lost, and adjust from there. You can always move them up or down later on in the tourney if need be. They may not like it, but you have to be fair to all the players.

Heide

[Ralph S.]

Valley is short for Valley National Eightball Association or VNEA is what most might know it by.
Ralph S.

[9 Ball Girl]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Predator314:</font><hr> Players will just knock the cue ball down the table leaving you no shot, but they do it without even hitting a ball. <hr /></blockquote>

I've experienced the same thing and it drives me nuts. I'm sure that people who do this would think twice when BIH is concerned. I think I'm going to go with BIH and leaning towards BCA rules.

[9 Ball Girl]

I do agree with the shorter races because 8 ball can be quite long depending on the players. Probably races to 4 in the Winners side and races to 2 or 3 in the Losers. I've got to ponder this with the person who I will be assisting running this thing, Naz. [img]/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[9 Ball Girl]

That sounds good. I'm thinking of BCA rules and the rules we went by at the Corner Billiards League.

1. Lag winner breaks (although I might just go with a coin toss to simplify things)

2. 8 Ball on the break is a win

3. Table is still open after the break regardless of how many balls drop.

4. The table is no longer open after the first called shot is pocketed. At this point, the handicapped player will remove their amount of balls that need to be removed (that is if I go by using balls instead of games on the wire)

5. The handicapped player MUST remove their balls immediately after the first called shot is pocketed. If they forget, then they must remain on the table. Courtesy to remind the handicapped player is optional.

6. BIH when you do not make contact with your OB, with a rail, and when you scratch (CB goes in a pocket or off the table).

7. BIH in the kitchen if the CB scratches after the break.

8. Loss of game when the 8 ball and CB drop in after the break? (Not sure if people would like that one though)

9. 8 Ball is neutral. You can sink your ball off the 8, combinate it i.e. 7 to the 8 to the 5.

10. The 8 ball doesn't have to go in clean to win the game. If you miss the pocket, it is not a loss of game, however, the 8 ball or another OB must hit a rail after making contact with the 8.

11. While your opponent is shooting, you MUST remain seated. Sharking methods will result in a loss of game. You must call either me or Naz over to settle any conflicts. I don't care how severe that is but some people have to learn the hard way. Sharking methods will have to be explained I guess?