#290016 - 11/11/09 10:47 AM
Re: Teaching When To Play Safe?
[Re: Sid_Vicious]
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Gayle in MD
Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 11719
Loc: Maryland
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Funny seeing this today, I was just writing about the same thing yesterday on the NPR.
Just a suggestion, I'm far from an expert, but: See if you can get some of the players you are speaking of to practice safeing the ball.
Lot's of people fail to practice safe's, and then presume that since they aren't confident enough to pull off a good one, they might just as well go for the shot, which is usually near impossible.
If they don't practice safe's, the hard shot seems a better bet to them.
NOT!
Also, I notice most safe's are missed because they shoot too hard. Even the pros do that often when shooting a safe.
G.
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#290026 - 11/11/09 11:51 AM
Re: Teaching When To Play Safe?
[Re: Bambu]
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JJFSTAR
enthusiast
Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 201
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
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Billy Bob I am sorry but there are few if any hopeless cases as students however there are many many hopeless cases as teachers. I have been teaching competition pool for 17 years and I have seen this question come up many times.
How most people try to teach other people the game is exactly backwards. What they will do is point out what the person did wrong and what they should have done in that situation. Sound familiar? I say that if you employ this as a teaching method you may be forever frustrated as a teacher because your students will progress very slowly if at all.
When one learns math for example do they memorize the sum of 2 + 2, 4 + 4 and 8 + 8 and from that extrapolate the mathematical formula? Or do they learn the process of the addition of two integers to come up with the correct sum? Stupid question you might say; and I say, so why are you trying to teach pool that way?
To teach someone effectively you must first find out what is missing or broken. As far as safeties are concerned well over 90% of the time it is that their odds computer is spitting out the wrong data. The first order of business is to get that taken care of by having them tell you what the odds are of making any given setups you want to do. You will find that 95% of the time these people have absolutely no clue as to how often they can make what. Once it is brought to their attention they will start to nod their head at you.
After that you should start to play one pocket and strait pool with them as well as 9 ball with the rule that you can make a ball and call safe. With someone who does not play safe you will win almost every game unless they get really lucky. Play these 3 games with them twice a week for 1 season and they will be playing safeties and 2 way shots before you know it.
_________________________
Pool isn't a game it's a lifestyle
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#290027 - 11/11/09 12:05 PM
Re: Teaching When To Play Safe?
[Re: KellyStick]
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wolfdancer
Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 10585
Loc: north to alaska
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Maybe that is the "hook" to get folks to begin playing safeties....mentioning that it is a skill shot!!!. I like it!!!
I play on a team of marginally skilled players...given the right
layout, I can run 3 balls, so they think I am an
advanced player. "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man
is King". They will sometimes ask for my input on
their options....but they balk at my safety suggestions
as they are all "run out players". My idea why they resist is
you don't look all that bad when missing a shot, but selling
out while trying to play safe.......
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#290042 - 11/11/09 02:46 PM
Re: Teaching When To Play Safe?
[Re: wolfdancer]
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cushioncrawler
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2046
Loc: Ballarat Australia
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Playing safe iz a big part of English billiards.
THE BREAK. The break iz uzually a safety -- uzually u hit the red into baulk, leeving your white out of baulk but near a side cushion -- or, u might try to put both balls in baulk -- or, u might leev both balls out of baulk but one on the left cushion and one on the right.
MISSING. Back in 1965 u were allowed an intentional miss -- ie u didnt even havtahit a ball (or rail).
COUP. Untill 2008, u kood shoot into a pocket for some shots -- called "running a coup" -- leeving the opponent with just the red to play at.
Praktising safetys and praktising trying to score off safetys iz a big part of modern English billiards -- it iz one of the reasons that English billiards iz the best (most enjoyable) cue'sport in the world.
Join your nearest league (probly in Canada).
madMac.
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#290044 - 11/11/09 03:09 PM
Re: Teaching When To Play Safe?
[Re: JoeW]
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cushioncrawler
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2046
Loc: Ballarat Australia
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There is a cliche in the league I played in, "If you can't run 8 don't run 7." Seems to help some players. Others just don't see the logical extension of that type of thinking.
So, how kood this sort of statistik be applyd to pool ??????????
In a simple situation, say with just the 9Ball (or 8Ball) remaining -- what are the odds ?????????
What iz the odds for potting the 9.
What iz the odds for the opponent potting the 9 if i miss.
What iz the odds of me playing a safety az planned.
What iz the odds of the opponent potting the 9 off my safety.
What iz the odds of etc etc etc etc etc etc.
Kood u do tests -- 2 equally matched players (and for 2 non'equal players) -- playing say 100 games -- with just the 9 -- the 9 and Qball placed by hand -- in the same pozzy every time (or/and in different set pozzyz) -- both players playing zero safety -- then both players playing lots of safety -- then only one player playing zero safety.
What rezults might a statistician kum up with ????
What rezults might a psychologist kum up with ????
U might firstly need to calibrate eech player -- eg by having the player play lots of set shots -- eg potting -- to check performance.
U might havta calibrate for safetys too.
madMac.
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#290055 - 11/11/09 03:45 PM
Re: Teaching When To Play Safe?
[Re: cushioncrawler]
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cushioncrawler
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2046
Loc: Ballarat Australia
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This sort of experiment kood allso be dunn by computer v's computer (u know what i mean) -- eech computer being given a Rating (ie being set on a Rating) -- and for varyus kombos of Ratings.
madMac.
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#290078 - 11/11/09 05:25 PM
Re: Teaching When To Play Safe?
[Re: wolfdancer]
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pooltchr
Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 04/18/03
Posts: 7909
Loc: Charlotte, NC
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Maybe that is the "hook" to get folks to begin playing safeties....mentioning that it is a skill shot!!!. I like it!!!
Our team has a "scratch pot" If you give up BIH during a match it costs you a dollar. Maybe we should tell them if they play a lock-up safety and get BIH out of it, they get a buck!
Steve
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#290093 - 11/11/09 07:33 PM
Re: Teaching When To Play Safe?
[Re: pooltchr]
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JoeW
addict
Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 432
Loc: Leesburg, FL
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While Bayesian approaches in a regression model could be used, it would require entering several variables and probably too many to derive a reliable equation. In my experience, more than about four variables results in estimates that are not useful except for theoretical analysis in this type of situation. As I am sure you know there are many variables to be considered when developing one's strategy.
The the use of clustering procedures in an ipsative analysis one could identify the pertinent variables that might be if use.
(BTW I am an applied statistician and taught advanced graduate statistics and psychometrics for many years.)
The logical extension of the statement, "If you can't run 8 don't run 7" involves the idea that if you can't run two don't run one. The strategy is to set up the table for a run out from wherever one is in the game. Not everyone agrees but it does depend on one's goal.
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#290094 - 11/11/09 09:28 PM
Re: Teaching When To Play Safe?
[Re: JoeW]
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cushioncrawler
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2046
Loc: Ballarat Australia
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Joe -- But when just the 8Ball iz left, iz a safe mostly eezyr (better) than having a go.
Can u send the 8 for a ride (or do u havta nominate).
If u stun on the 8 (to minimize scratching) but send it into orbit.......
1...... what are the general chances of the 8 falling.
2...... what are the chances of fluking a safe'ish leev anyhow.
madMac.
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